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[Bulletproof]

So after lots of debate about the Vettel/Webber crash I thought it would be interesting to see what the general consensus is. I'm with Martin Brundle and belive it was 100% Vettels fault.

[madbrad]

Vettel was within his rights to try the pass, but somehow he jerked right, which I'm sure was unintentional or a misjudgement of space. In that sense it's Vettel's fault, but really it was a racing incident.
Webber was within his rights to defend. He was still owner of the line. They don't pay him to let people pass him. Vettel says he owned the line but he was not far enough ahead to take ownership. He's biased for himself. If he could look at the film objectively, or if it were another pair of drivers, he would not say that guy was far enough ahead that the other guy had to move over. He also says he was faster all race, which, top speed wise, Webber even admitted to, but you cannot use that as an excuse to say the guy should have let you by. Drivers do play that card from time to time and it's rubbish.
But I still like Vettel, he's just wrong about it.

[gunnervine]

Vettel was within his rights to try the pass, but somehow he jerked right, which I'm sure was unintentional or a misjudgement of space. In that sense it's Vettel's fault, but really it was a racing incident.

It wasn't unintentional, I'm positive it was a move to force Webber right, but he misjudged and moved too far, too fast. So Vettel's fault. It's not like it was a choice of that or the grass, despite what other biased RB employees say.

[en8wall]

In my opinion it has to be Vettel's fault. Webber gave him space but kept to his own line and put the ball in Vettels court regarding making the overtaking move stick.

vettel showed some inexperience by thinking he had the move done and tried to move over far to early thus causing the accident.

The way Christian Horner and Helmut Marko (not German by any chance?) have spoken about the incident laying the blame at Webber's door is shameful. Can you imagine Prost/Senna, Mansell/Piquet just letting their team mate by? Webber has marked himself out now as a top competitor and has avoided going the way of DC and Barrichello by giving way.

Roll on the rest of the season.

By the way, its so good to see LH up against a top driver and not having things all his own way.

[Hexagram]

Vettel's fault for sure. Put anyone else in Webber's position and Vettel still would have hit them, he turned in on Webber as if he wasn't going to be there.

[Gaz]

if you were trying to force somone wide you'd either do it very slowley so they see you comming and in a place where they can see you.

Vettle just swerved into him as a knee-jerk reaction like he wasn't quite aware of the position of his car.

He must be very jittery when it comes to close racing or hes got very bad spatial awarness.

Perhaps abit of both.

Vettles fault, a coward for not admiting it, and a jerk for letting the team defend him and blame webber.

lost all respect for the guy and i feel it justifys what i've said along about him, he a pretty good fast lap driver but not a racing driver.

[stonemonkey]

To me it's not clear, if they were different teams then Vettel would be at fault but in this case I think it depends on the rules Red Bull have for their drivers in such situations, the team comes first so I reckon it'll be more than just 'leave room' and 'play fair' and who is at fault is dependent on their exact rules.

[Denthúl]

Bah, clicked the wrong option >.<

Definitely Vettel's fault. He turned when the move wasn't complete...

[What's Burning?]

Tension will be veeeeery high strung in the Red Bull camp for some time to come.

[madbrad]

Vettel was within his rights to try the pass, but somehow he jerked right, which I'm sure was unintentional or a misjudgement of space. In that sense it's Vettel's fault, but really it was a racing incident.

It wasn't unintentional, I'm positive it was a move to force Webber right, but he misjudged and moved too far, too fast. So Vettel's fault. It's not like it was a choice of that or the grass, despite what other biased RB employees say.

I didn't phrase it right. I didn't mean the actual right turn was unintentional. The bumps may have played a part in it becoming a sudden jerk though. It must be tough to maintain 100% control at those speeds with no margin available.


They are under orders to leave each other room but that does not mean Webber must bow and say "after you sir".

[texasmr2]

I found this video and watched it several times using a quick 'start/pause' method and it is clearly visible that;
1. Webber actually did pull right slightly when he see's Vettel right along side giving him extra room.
2. Vettel after clearly being given extra room still try's to push Webber further right thus making contact.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lqwx7w6i ... re=related

[johnrbaker25]

As far as I can see Webber is 60% at fault and Vettel 40%. Here's why.
Look at the youtube footage from Webbers car. He exits the turn prior to the prang and instead of following the line to the right ready for the next left hander he straightens up and is one car width from the left side of the track. The footage clearly shows him straighten the wheel from a wheel position that would take him nicely to the right for the left hander. My guess is he straightened when he got Vettel in the mirror. Webber also blocked Vettels move just out of the last bend expecting Vettel to pass on the inside which would be the preffered track position for Vettel.
Now look at the youtube footage from Vettel's car. Vettel expected Webber to exit the corner and proceed to the right and get on the correct line for the next bend. Webber did not and took a defensive line. Vettel saw Webber straighten and take the wrong line which was a baulking/defensive move. Or, maybe Vettel thought a little move to the right would send Webber a message to counteract Webber's deliberate warning. Message not responded to. Webber could easily have moved over when he saw Vettel's (perhaps innocent) move - he chose not to and gambled he would come off OK as is usually the case with a front wheel/rear wheel touch as in this circumstance.
Fact is Vettel had the drop on Webber. If both drivers had given each other room Webber would have been out-dragged to the next bend fair and square.
If Vettel had stayed straight he still would have owned the next corner because he had the inside, this makes Vettels race craft suspect and shows inexperience.
I have single seater experience.

[texasmr2]

As far as I can see Webber is 60% at fault and Vettel 40%. Here's why.
Look at the youtube footage from Webbers car. He exits the turn prior to the prang and instead of following the line to the right ready for the next left hander he straightens up and is one car width from the left side of the track.

The line was Webbers to decide simply because he was leading Vettel and he makes the decision as too what line he wants to follow.

The footage clearly shows him straighten the wheel from a wheel position that would take him nicely to the right for the left hander. My guess is he straightened when he got Vettel in the mirror. Webber also blocked Vettels move just out of the last bend expecting Vettel to pass on the inside which would be the preffered track position for Vettel.

Once again a simple case of the leader being able to chose his line.

Now look at the youtube footage from Vettel's car. Vettel expected Webber to exit the corner and proceed to the right and get on the correct line for the next bend. Webber did not and took a defensive line. Vettel saw Webber straighten and take the wrong line which was a baulking/defensive move. Or, maybe Vettel thought a little move to the right would send Webber a message to counteract Webber's deliberate warning. Message not responded to. Webber could easily have moved over when he saw Vettel's (perhaps innocent) move - he chose not to and gambled he would come off OK as is usually the case with a front wheel/rear wheel touch as in this circumstance.

Refer to previous comments.

Fact is Vettel had the drop on Webber.

That was quite obvious.

If both drivers had given each other room Webber would have been out-dragged to the next bend fair and square.

Once again why should Webber move over for Vettel? The pass was not made complete and until it is the line and corner belong to the driver in front.

If Vettel had stayed straight he still would have owned the next corner because he had the inside, this makes Vettels race craft suspect and shows inexperience.

Another fact we all know but why did he move over?

I have single seater experience.

As quite a few of the members here do aswell or atleast karting experience.

[madbrad]

..... My guess is he straightened when he got Vettel in the mirror...... Webber ... took a defensive line. Vettel saw Webber straighten and take the wrong line which was a baulking/defensive move.

There's nothing wrong with doing that. He has the right to defend, and his job is to try to stay ahead.

If both drivers had given each other room Webber would have been out-dragged to the next bend fair and square.

Which is why Webber did not give any quarter. Again, he does not have to.

I have single seater experience.

Me too. I took all but the driver's seat out of the Mustang once. Really fit alot of topsoil in there.

[f1ea]

I think its very straight fwd. It was Vettel's fault.

1) He initiated the pass, and it came out wrong.
2) He HIT Webber, for some reason he lost the car and went to the right.
3) Webber could have given him the room, because Vettel was faster; but Vettel came too close without any reason (ie he had space to the left). I'm sure Mark would have let him by if he had tried a couple of moves and Webber knew he was slowing him down and probably cause them 2 taking each other out.

It was not a deliberate action. Just a racing incident... too bad he hasnt owned up and admitted the pass came out wrong. It did.

This has been a controversial season. but for all the right reasons!! no Mosley, no BS, teammates racing eachother