FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[darwin dali]

I know this question will piss people off but, in the F1 cars i thought they were all Automatic? so why were they talking about a clutch controlled car in the Brawn car??

Or is it certain cars? Explain Please

i dont know how much i believe it but im sure everything in the world that runs on land with a motor engine has a clutch. dont automatics (for example the american cars like ford and GM) also have clutches, they just arent user operated? i also thought it was the reason automatic cars rev so high before the next gear, to compensate a slower clutch change then a human....?

Go on guys, tell me how wrong i am

Wiki, your friend says:
An automatic gearbox is one type of motor vehicle transmission that can automatically change gear ratios as the vehicle moves, freeing the driver from having to shift gears manually. Most automatic transmissions have a defined set of gear ranges, often with a parking pawl feature that locks the output shaft of the transmission.

Similar but larger devices are also used for heavy-duty commercial and industrial vehicles and equipment. Some machines with limited speed ranges or fixed engine speeds, such as some forklifts and lawn mowers, only use a torque converter to provide a variable gearing of the engine to the wheels.

Besides automatics, there are also other types of automated transmissions such as continuous variable transmissions (CVTs) and semi-automatic transmissions, that free the driver from having to shift gears manually. by using the transmission's computer to change gear, if for example the driver were redlining the engine. Despite superficial similarity to other automated transmissions, automatic transmissions differ significantly in internal operation and driver's "feel" from semi-automatics and CVTs. An automatic uses a torque converter instead of clutch to manage the connection between the transmission gearing and the engine. In contrast, a CVT uses a belt or other torque transmission schema to allow an "infinite" number of gear ratios instead of a fixed number of gear ratios. A semi-automatic retains a clutch like a manual transmission, but controls the clutch through electrohydraulic means.

A conventional manual transmission is frequently the base equipment in a car, with the option being an automated transmission such as a conventional automatic, semi-automatic, or CVT. The ability to shift gears manually, often via paddle shifters, can also be found on certain automated transmissions (manumatics such as Tiptronic), semi-automatics (BMW SMG), and continuous variable transmissions (CVTs) (such as Lineartronic).

[bigpat]

F1 did have 'automated' transmissions, from 91-93. The driver could just drive leaving the car to sort out gear changing. However, they have always used a layshaft based gearset. This has been the best compromise with simpicity, weight, size, and serviceability.

As it stands now, the driver must use the clutch to move from a standing start. If he were to select 1st gear without the clutch, it would simply refuse to let him do it. Same, when on track, the car will not select another ratio unless commanded by the driver. If the conditions don't exist for proper engagement ( potential over-rev on downchange) the car will reject it, awaiting another command.

I don't believe going back to mechanical shifts will improve racing. I also don't think its relevant to today. Let's face it, most of us drove auto cars, and new 'performance cars' all use a "paddle shift box, rather than a traditional gear lever......

Cheers,

Pat

[texasmr2]

F1 did have 'automated' transmissions, from 91-93. The driver could just drive leaving the car to sort out gear changing. However, they have always used a layshaft based gearset. This has been the best compromise with simpicity, weight, size, and serviceability.

As it stands now, the driver must use the clutch to move from a standing start. If he were to select 1st gear without the clutch, it would simply refuse to let him do it. Same, when on track, the car will not select another ratio unless commanded by the driver. If the conditions don't exist for proper engagement ( potential over-rev on downchange) the car will reject it, awaiting another command.

I don't believe going back to mechanical shifts will improve racing. I also don't think its relevant to today. Let's face it, most of us drove auto cars, and new 'performance cars' all use a "paddle shift box, rather than a traditional gear lever......

Cheers,

Pat

I'm certain most of us here know this info already yet it would bring back a more traditional form of racing. Not all cars that are afforable to us working dog's have the paddles and I personaly prefer a proper manual.

[bigpat]

Don't get me wrong, I too like swapping my own cogs, and love traditional racing more than anyone, but F1 is a sport that champions development. Hard to have a car bristling with cutting edge ideas, and a plain old H pattern knob in the cockpit...

I think too much is made of increased skill and potential missed shifts. Shifting really is a non event these days.True racing cars with dog boxes are VERY forgiving to shift, either H pattern or sequential. I have been very surprised how little finesse you need to shift them, especially back down the gears. Under brakes, just crack the throttle with the outside of your foot, and just dab the clutch, while feeding down the gears. And as we well know, you don't even need to use the clutch when on track in proper racing cars. The large windows on the engagement dogs make it easy to find a gear. Honestly, you need more skill to shift down clutchless in your road car....

When I worked on Formula Holden's (ex Formula 3000's) we counted exactly 4 missed shifts all season, and only one was while racing.......

[texasmr2]

I think we are on the same page here and your insight is refreshing so thanks and welcome to the forum .

[bigpat]

Cheers mate!

[geetface9]

I know this question will piss people off but, in the F1 cars i thought they were all Automatic? so why were they talking about a clutch controlled car in the Brawn car??

Or is it certain cars? Explain Please

i dont know how much i believe it but im sure everything in the world that runs on land with a motor engine has a clutch. dont automatics (for example the american cars like ford and GM) also have clutches, they just arent user operated? i also thought it was the reason automatic cars rev so high before the next gear, to compensate a slower clutch change then a human....?

Go on guys, tell me how wrong i am

Blahaha my automatic shifts at 3k rpm.....I hate it when I'm trying to get on the freeway cuz I lose so much power every time it shifts and goes back down to like 1.5k rpm

[bigpat]

Blahaha my automatic shifts at 3k rpm.....I hate it when I'm trying to get on the freeway cuz I lose so much power every time it shifts and goes back down to like 1.5k rpm [/quote]

Just press the juice pedal harder, so it changes gear at 4,500 rpm! Or just hold the shifter in gear... drive it like you stole it!!!!

[vlad]

Kickdown rulez!

[texasmr2]

Great video but of course it raises once again the opinion of which is better/more suited/yada yada yada. IMHO the driver is taken more out of 'full control' of the car with the auto-dogleg, yeah some may say it lets him focus more on the track but isn't the driver supposed to control all aspects of car control which many many moons ago meant clutch control??
[youtube]gnrxFTBPtpU&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

[uncle fester]

A proper clutch and stick shift would be better as a driver can always balls up a gear change and in turn give a following car a chance to overtake,but the teams say they use auto's to save the engines from being lunched.