FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[stonemonkey]

Just to go off on the tangent of fuel consumption some more - apparently, F1 engines are extremely capable and can conceivably run at better fuel consumption than many road cars, it's just all the aero parts and associated drag along with the high revs that cause the high rate. I was quite surprised to hear that...

And where did you hear that? Any data to support such a claim? Just curious...

I heard this too, F1 cars have a huge amount of drag because of the downforce they generate and because the relationship between drag and speed is exponential the drag at high speed shoots way up. The engines are actually very efficient but because of the forces they're run against it doesn't look like they are.

[darwin dali]

Just to go off on the tangent of fuel consumption some more - apparently, F1 engines are extremely capable and can conceivably run at better fuel consumption than many road cars, it's just all the aero parts and associated drag along with the high revs that cause the high rate. I was quite surprised to hear that...

And where did you hear that? Any data to support such a claim? Just curious...

I heard this too, F1 cars have a huge amount of drag because of the downforce they generate and because the relationship between drag and speed is exponential the drag at high speed shoots way up. The engines are actually very efficient but because of the forces they're run against it doesn't look like they are.

Numbers, numbers!?!

[scotty]

I honestly can't remember, unfortunately. I think it was one of my uni lecturers, but i've heard it mentioned elsewhere too, i'm sure...

Also i think i should reword what i said - F1 engines are more efficient at turning fuel into power than any other engine, by as much as 20% depending on what you hear. Obviously in a road car you don't always need ~770hp.

I have no numbers or data etc etc to back this up right now, but to me it does make some good sense. If i find anything i'll post!

[darwin dali]

I honestly can't remember, unfortunately. I think it was one of my uni lecturers, but i've heard it mentioned elsewhere too, i'm sure...

Also i think i should reword what i said - F1 engines are more efficient at turning fuel into power than any other engine, by as much as 20% depending on what you hear. Obviously in a road car you don't always need ~770hp.

I have no numbers or data etc etc to back this up right now, but to me it does make some good sense. If i find anything i'll post!

Good man
Such data would help in arguments with non-F1 fans

[bud]

Race fuel consumption rate is normally around 75 liters per 100 kilometers traveled (3.1 US mpg - 3.8 UK mpg - 1.3 km/l). Nonetheless a Formula One engine is over 20% more efficient at turning fuel into power than most small commuter cars, considering their craftsmanship

75lt per 100km isn't that good at all compared to even say a 6.0 litre V8 getting 17lt per 100km but that's not taking into account avg speed avg rpm.

[darwin dali]

Race fuel consumption rate is normally around 75 liters per 100 kilometers traveled (3.1 US mpg - 3.8 UK mpg - 1.3 km/l). Nonetheless a Formula One engine is over 20% more efficient at turning fuel into power than most small commuter cars, considering their craftsmanship

75lt per 100km isn't that good at all compared to even say a 6.0 litre V8 getting 17lt per 100km but that's not taking into account avg speed avg rpm.

Yeah, most cars here get (or will have to get starting soon) over 30 mpg - that's 10 times better albeit at a 3 times slower average speed.

[scotty]

I honestly can't remember, unfortunately. I think it was one of my uni lecturers, but i've heard it mentioned elsewhere too, i'm sure...

Also i think i should reword what i said - F1 engines are more efficient at turning fuel into power than any other engine, by as much as 20% depending on what you hear. Obviously in a road car you don't always need ~770hp.

I have no numbers or data etc etc to back this up right now, but to me it does make some good sense. If i find anything i'll post!

Good man
Such data would help in arguments with non-F1 fans

It would probably be hard to explain regardless because it is quite complicated, i think. You have to account for drag coefficients (typical road car drag coefficient values are around 0.3, whereas Formula 1 cars are around 0.8 - 1.2 depending on the track, i.e. 0.8 at Monza and 1.2 at Monaco, maybe more) and things like AC and lights using more fuel in a road car - obviously F1 cars don't have those things, although they do have all the telemetry, etc - i have no idea how much that uses. Also F1 cars are usually travelling at 120mph+!

Therefore i must stress the difference between 'power/fuel efficiency' and the usual miles per gallon efficiency.

Anyway, i'm rambling on a bit...

[stonemonkey]

Race fuel consumption rate is normally around 75 liters per 100 kilometers traveled (3.1 US mpg - 3.8 UK mpg - 1.3 km/l). Nonetheless a Formula One engine is over 20% more efficient at turning fuel into power than most small commuter cars, considering their craftsmanship

75lt per 100km isn't that good at all compared to even say a 6.0 litre V8 getting 17lt per 100km but that's not taking into account avg speed avg rpm.

Yeah, most cars here get (or will have to get starting soon) over 30 mpg - that's 10 times better albeit at a 3 times slower average speed.

Neglecting rolling resistance the drag (air resistance) increases by 9 times for an increase of 3 times the speed.

[darwin dali]

Race fuel consumption rate is normally around 75 liters per 100 kilometers traveled (3.1 US mpg - 3.8 UK mpg - 1.3 km/l). Nonetheless a Formula One engine is over 20% more efficient at turning fuel into power than most small commuter cars, considering their craftsmanship

75lt per 100km isn't that good at all compared to even say a 6.0 litre V8 getting 17lt per 100km but that's not taking into account avg speed avg rpm.

Yeah, most cars here get (or will have to get starting soon) over 30 mpg - that's 10 times better albeit at a 3 times slower average speed.

Neglecting rolling resistance the drag (air resistance) increases by 9 times for an increase of 3 times the speed.

On the other hand, you'd need to standardize for weight which is considerably higher in a road car (especially in fat America ).

[stonemonkey]

Race fuel consumption rate is normally around 75 liters per 100 kilometers traveled (3.1 US mpg - 3.8 UK mpg - 1.3 km/l). Nonetheless a Formula One engine is over 20% more efficient at turning fuel into power than most small commuter cars, considering their craftsmanship

75lt per 100km isn't that good at all compared to even say a 6.0 litre V8 getting 17lt per 100km but that's not taking into account avg speed avg rpm.

Yeah, most cars here get (or will have to get starting soon) over 30 mpg - that's 10 times better albeit at a 3 times slower average speed.

Neglecting rolling resistance the drag (air resistance) increases by 9 times for an increase of 3 times the speed.

On the other hand, you'd need to standardize for weight which is considerably higher in a road car (especially in fat America ).

I also suspect that the consumption of road cars is not stated from being measured while repeatedly accelerating as hard as you can and braking hard.

[bud]

Most are measured in city driving scenarios so alot of stop starting and idling which is alot worse for fuel consumption than highway where you're mostly at a constant speed.

[darwin dali]

Most are measured in city driving scenarios so alot of stop starting and idling which is alot worse for fuel consumption than highway where you're mostly at a constant speed.

We always have two measures of mpg, city and highway.

[stonemonkey]

Most are measured in city driving scenarios so alot of stop starting and idling which is alot worse for fuel consumption than highway where you're mostly at a constant speed.

We always have two measures of mpg, city and highway.

OK, so repeatedly accelerating and braking hurts the consumption figures, F1 is a little more extreme than urban/city driving. The city measurements for road cars will be made with economic driving habits and other driving habits could still put a big dent in those figures.